Getting Out of the Friend Zone: The Easy Way
Popular mythology would have you believe that the “Friend Zone” is an inescapable Sarlacc Pit of tantalizing doom. The Friend Zone is scary. A guy can innocently befriend a girl1, could realize after the expiration of the new-acquaintence validation period that he wants to date her, but could then find that, due to his delay, he is locked into a thousand years of being digested by friendship, shopping, and talking about her boyfriend.
This trap used to be particularly easy for me to fall into because I was scared to ask girls out, yet I love being their best friends. I do like talking about emotions, after all. After much trial and error, I figured out how to prevent it, how to identify it, and how to deal with it once it’s taken root. So, as promised, in my attempt to provide something of value to my heterosexual male readers, all six of you, I would like to present my tried-and-true steps for getting out of the Friend Zone.
Important Note: Half of what I’m talking about (like, ever) is based on sitcoms and Jane Austen novels, and the other 45% is from an extremely anecdotal collection of personal experiences. The rest I’m making up. Which, seriously, is pretty much the same source distribution for your average published string theory paper2. Even so, some of this stuff is common sense.
There are three keys to avoiding a Friend Zone outbreak before it starts.
- Flirtation
- Observation
- Escalation
Feel free to come up with your own pneumonic. But, honestly, this is just your standard dating rules of engagement, folks. These are the basics. If you flirt, she responds, and you escalate (pay attention to pacing, though), you won’t have to worry about being in the friend zone for long. Contrariwise, if you’re getting obvious rejection signals during step #2, then you can move on with a friendship or move on with your life.
But, hey, we’re only human. Sometimes you’re too scared for step #1, don’t notice that she’s digging you in step #2, or some sort of boyfriend-type scenario is causing you problems in step #3. Before you know it, months have gone by, and you’re getting together with her to knit and chat about boys she likes that aren’t you.
How do you know you’re in the friend zone? Here are some ways to tell:
- You feel like you can’t be honest about how much you like her because it’ll destroy the friendship. But you will, one of these days.
- When she started dating her boyfriend, you just knew that she’d break up with him someday to be with you. That was six months ago.
- You’ve watched When Harry Met Sally. Multiple times. With her. And you think that’s how it’s going to work out in real life.
- You aren’t interested in dating other girls, because you want to be available when she finally decides to actually date you.
If those symptoms apply to you, you know the situation is serious. Now, for some people this is entirely acceptible. Maybe you’re willing to lavish the girl with attention indefinitely despite little expectation of an actual mutually exclusive two-way-street type relationship with a future. But if you’ve made an affirmative commitment to resolving the situation, here’s what you do.
Tell her how you feel. Part of your problem is established behavioral and thought patterns obstructing your ability to think objectively and critically. This has you mixed up in some kind of crazy cognitive dissonance where you’re constantly modulating the amount of affection to what you think are accceptible levels.
Which, sure, that’s fine and good when it’s your hot coworker and you’re just trying to keep your crush a secret so that things are acceptable for work, but it does not work well for a more intimate and open best friend-type relationship. You need honesty for that.
Keep in mind, too, that there’s never going to be a perfect time for this. You might have to be proactive. Call her up, ask if she wants to take a walk, stop her where the scenery is pretty and tell her how you feel. Or, whatever, write her love poetry and give it to her with some tropical fruit at the end of economics class. I will give you one guess as to which of those ways I have employed in the past. Here’s a hint: try to imagine which one is more awkward.
There are three possible outcomes of this:
- Outright rejection. Good, you can move on with your life.
- Outright acceptance. Maybe she just had no idea and she’s felt the same way about you. Fantastic, all your dreams have come true.
- Something in between. Don’t fool yourself – if you got rejected, own it and deal with it. But if you aren’t sure, it’s time to move on to the next step.
Oh gosh, you’re saying, that’s so awful. You’ve ruined the friendship with your crazy expressions of affection. Maybe so. Personally, I’ve remained good friends with girls I’ve had crushes on, after even the most apocalyptically awful drunken e-mailed declarations of awkward love. Actually, if I can dig that one up, I’ll reprint it and tell the story.
Date Someone Else
I’m going to say this up front: if you sleazily make some girl a pawn in your hare-brained jealousy scheme, I will personally come to your house and make you listen to unbearably awkward stories until you can’t take it anymore and apologize for being an asshole.
That is not what I am suggesting.
What I am saying is this: try moving on. Seriously, try hard. This is for your own good. If you’ve been rejected or semi-rejected after you declared your affection, don’t spend time with her so much any more. Meet lots of other girls. Join a club. Take yoga at the gym. Go to concerts of bands that you like, and talk to the girls there. Whatever you need to do. Just, seriously, be sure to use the prevention steps above. You don’t need to be in the intersecting area of two Friend Zones. That’s like a Venn Diagram of doom.
Or, hey, maybe, I dunno, spend time with friends who are dudes.
My Work Is Done Here
No, seriously. That’s it. There are three ways this can play out:
- You decide that the new girl that you have found is better anyway. This is kind of the optimal scenario, honestly. And since you followed the Tell Her How You Feel advice with the original friend zone girl (you did, right?) and she did not reciprocate, you have nothing to regret. You’re free to enjoy your newfound relationship.
- She realizes that you’re who she really wanted after all, and that she misses having your in her life, so she throws herself at your feet. Why would this happen? Don’t ask me, I’m just lifting this from the plot of the second season of Friends. Anyway, now you have a painful decision to make, which I will leave to you. I will say this: don’t make a list with pros and cons of each girl, and then leave it where they can find it.
- You realize that you can’t handle YOUR new life without her and break up with your own girlfriend, but yet she shows no signs of your lack of attention causing her to want to be in love with you. Well, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I think this means it’s not going to work out between you two. I mean, it’s one thing for a girl to not be interested when you ask her out, but it’s quite another, more serious thing for her to not be interested in you when you are dating another girl.
So there you go. All it takes, really, is knowing your exits, just like a covert superhero operative behind enemy lines who is also on a blind date. If you follow these steps, you will either be dating the girl you want, dating someone else, or miserable and alone, like when you started. But, even if it is the latter, at least you’re out of the Friend Zone!
1: This post is also gender- and preference-specific, because I don’t know for sure if this works for anything other than a guy getting a girl. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in other scenarios, though.
2: Don’t believe e.g. Schewe, Stein, and Castelvecchi or Distler, Grinstein, Porto, and Rothstein. String theory is witchcraft. At least I don’t have to wait for CERN to collide hadrons to test my dating theories.
March 9th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
This happens quite often, and despite how romantically retarded I am, I can always tell when a guy friend likes me, as more than err friends. It might be hard to tell when a male stranger/acquaintance is interested, but for me, it’s a no brainer with a male friend. And the revelation… I’m not going to lie, it does put a kink in the friendship if the feelings aren’t mutual. It’s because you don’t want to give mix messages, therefore you censor yourself, therefore you feel not yourself, therefore the friendship stops being completely how it used to be. The silver lining though, I’ve stayed friends with most of those guy friends after some initial awkwardness and separation. Time passed, feelings change, things sort out and the friendship makes full circle. :)
March 9th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Well see, maybe you can answer this. So I say up there that:
a) It’s bad to have a crush on your friend who is a girl, but NOT say anything.
b) It’s better if you just own up to it, sort out the emotions, and either move on or make out.
Yes? But obviously when you’re talking about having a crush on your friend, you always think that expressing affection is going to ruin it.
What do you think?
Also: you’re a girl. Have you ever been in this situation with, like, a guy friend? Seriously, why the hell doesn’t that happen more? I can’t figure it out.
March 10th, 2007 at 1:42 am
BCOL is right – I had a guy friend who admitted to having a crush on me and, even though we tried to remain friends afterwards it was never the same. Just like BCOL says, I constantly felt the need to censor myself because I didn’t want to send him mixed messages or anything that could be interpreted as more than just friendship. Although pining in silence isn’t nice, if you admit to a girl that you like her and she doesn’t return the feeling then you’ll probably have to stop the friendship also.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
It’s all in how you handle it. I am a female who has had a lot of experience with friends liking me, and sometimes it turns out really awkward, while other times it’s ok. In general, I think your FOE steps are key. Unless you are able to get some sort of positive response from that, DON’T go further. Because either it will be catching her off guard, or she will have already been shutting you down in her own stupidly subtle way.
As for females having this problem with guy friends, trust me, it happens. But in that case I usually just ask them if they like me (I know, disobeying my own advice!) as soon as I feel anything at all, then I can act accordingly.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:35 am
Thorough job of helping the reader navigate dating waters. The crucial acronym FOE sums it up. Easy to remember for field operations.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
I think, if I were a guy and I had such strong feelings for my friend girl, I’d reveal that information BUT be prepare to take setbacks of the friendship. If things work out otherwise, than you’re pleasantly surprised. It’s a toughy for sure!
As for girls liking their friend boy, that does happen. But as I’ve mentioned in other comments, I think there’s still that “traditional” role that we fall into, where boys are suppose to pursue and girls be pursued. Because of that, most girls probably wouldn’t be forward about revealing their strong feelings.
March 13th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
[...] ATISTG hit the bullseye again with this one. Another Star Wars / Jane Austen reference combo. [...]
March 14th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
I think that once a guy realizes he has feelings for a girl who is a friend of his, one of the hardest things he can do is revert to a normal friendship. At least that is my (limited) experience.
March 19th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Just freaking tell her, don’t be a wussy. If she’s not into you, what have you got to lose? Just listening to her tell you about what a jerk she’s dating. Let her do that with her female friends.
If you want a friend get a dog.
If you want a girlfriend, you have be upfront about it, so make your move asap, boyfriend or no. She’ll respect you more for going after what you want.
March 20th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
[[despite how romantically retarded I am, I can always tell when a guy friend likes me, as more than err friends.]]
The fact that he talks to you more more than 5 seconds means he likes you as more than, err, friends :)
March 29th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
LOL at the Venn Diagram of Doom! Excellent metaphor! Love it! I got the Friends reference, too. Excellent usage.
This was an EXCELLENT post. I give it two “girl approved” thumbs up. Every guy should read this. You are spot on. (Why do i keep saying ‘excellent’?)
Except…. (you knew that was coming, right?)
Just make sure that in the Treatment stage (where you tell her how you feel) that you DO NOT say anything about wanting to get in her pants. You can tell her she’s beautiful, that she’s got a great figure, her hair smells good–what ever. But say NOTHING that could be interpreted as a Booty Call. Also, the confession should also be done while TOTALLY SOBER. or else it won’t even count.
The whole thing will blow up in his face if the guy doesn’t heed these warnings. Just ask my guy pal, who confessed all of this to me about two weeks ago.
Oh! Justin! Yes, I have had a crush on a guy friend before. I confessed. He rejected me. I was crushed. We ended up kinda hooking up a couple of weeks later, because he was so hot, i was willing to take what i could get….but he aborted the mission just before….uh, takeoff. :( so, it goes both ways.
Ok, this is probably TMI, but if a guy is trying to flirt with me, and he can get me to start making perverted jokes or flirt in a sexual way, that’s my way of saying, “dude, why haven’t you asked me for my number yet? I want to get in your pants.” It’s just that easy. That’s why your “escalate” step is so crucial. if i stick to neutral topics, the guy has no chance.
March 29th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Um, Billy, are you single? Do you happen to live relatively close to me? Because i really like guys with your attitude. Why can’t more guys think like that? BALLS OUT!!! Go for it!!!! YEAH!!!!
It’s very VERY flattering for a girl. Trust me. Guys who take risks are hottttt.
Also, to any guy who has a crush on a girl friend: even if she rejects you, she will always be flattered. so she will have a little soft spot for you. always. so all is not lost.
i am also grateful to Mikey Benny for the insight into male behavior. Maybe there is hope for me and my Hot Neighbor after all!!! Woot!!!!
August 21st, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Girls talk about “censor yourself” to avoid giving mixed signals but this is childish and immature. Here is my why story …
When I told my then friend that I was in love with her, I knew exactly what the answers would be. I knew that she knows how I feel (obvious) and I wanted to be just honest but her reactions surprised me completely and made think WTF. She said that she don’t want to talk about it, started inviting my brother when we go out, she stopped responding to my phone calls and made me feel annoying. She did not want be alone with me and that made me wonder if she thought that I was a rapist or what? When I give her space and stopped to contact her, she wanted to know why I changed and wanted me to call her back. I felt that she wanted only to use me all along; I felt so disrespected and ended the whole friendship thing.
The funny thing is that I did not expect anything from her, I did not believe that I should end our friendship just because she’s not attracted to me. I agree that it was hard to like another girl because I compared them to her but when she started her so called “censor actions” I felt mistrusted and disrespected. It was hard enough to be friend with a woman you love but being mistrusted, rejected and disrespected is too much to let go like nothing happens.
Girls need to realize that in friendship with a man, sexual tensions always gonna be there. Censoring your actions in immature because you change and automatically the man will have to adjust to your change. Talking is better and mature people know that feelings are just what they are: unconscious sentiments that cannot be forced. Just as the man put himself and his feeling out, women should learn to tell the man what’s up and let him leave or stay. Censoring your actions is controlling / manipulating and that what the man want to avoid (gifts, dinners, rides) when he confess his feeling to you.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
I need help. Ive been friends with this girl for about 9 months. we met in one of our college classes. when i met her she was in a relationship with a guy who she always complaining about. we used to flirt allllll the time while she was dating. her boyfriend broke up with her over the summer and she called me as soon as it happened crying. we started hanging a lot after that during the summer break. i get back to school and realize that i am very attracted to her and want to date her. we call each other to hang out. last week we had a movie night with some mild cuddling of the couch, nothing to intimate. i get mixed signals from her. the other day, i asked her very casually to eat dinner with me. she said she had a lot of work to do that night( she said this before i asked her out) and that she would let me know if she had time to go out. she is a very studious girl so i totally believed her. i waited for her call all night and she never called. is this some sort of sign that she is not interested, or am I just paranoid?
December 2nd, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Dan,
First of all, any advice you get from a guy who owns “awkwardthingsisaytogirls.com” should probably be taken with an entire planet of salt. With that said, here are the important bits I get from your post:
- There is a girl you like who is single.
- That is the only important fact.
So, why are we talking about some stupid calling business? What are you waiting for? I know exactly what you are waiting for: you’re nervous that she will reject you. This is legitimate but needs to stop right now. Here are your choices the next time you are spending time with her:
* In the middle of a conversation, as though you were asking her if she liked a movie, say: “Hey, do you want to date?” See what she says.
* When she is cuddling with you, kiss her. See what happens then.
Or whatever you want to do. I mean, those are things I’ve always wanted to try, but haven’t. So you can try them and let me know how they go.
Honestly, though: it’s impossible to know how people feel without having a conversation about it. Just assume that anybody can think anything but yet act in any possible way, and plan accordingly. The bottom line is that you need to try to make out with her in a respectful and non-threatening way ASAP and then report back the results.
December 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 am
Great advice, Justin. There’s totally hope for you.
December 11th, 2007 at 10:23 am
In great need of help. I recently made fast friends with a girl in one of my classes at college, and even though I wasn’t initially attracted to her… she’s starting to rub off on me in a major way. The thing is she’s in a long distance relationship with a guy she doesn’t seem to have feelings for anymore cuz she’s whined about why she’s still with him. I NEVER respond when she brings him up in conversation (made a point of that)
We’ve been hanging out a lot recently and I’m starting to like her more and more, but I haven’t gotten any signals from her that we could be anything more than friends. She sounds excited whenever I call her (maybe I’m reading too much into it) and always wants to sit next to me in class, but hardly anything in terms of flirting.
I’m starting to REALLY like her but don’t know what to do about my feelings. Should I tell her or wait to see where this goes? She’s still with her BF by the way.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Dude, I have no idea what you should do. I can’t leave you with nothing, though. I do know this: nothing you said means anything conclusive to me. Maybe she’ll marry that guy. Maybe she hates him and wants your pants. It’s impossible to tell.
So let me drop some game theory on your ass. Here are some of your many options.
1) You do nothing, only pining away for her secretly. If she just wants to be friends, you end up torturing yourself. If she breaks up with the boyfriend because she wants your hot body, you could score big, but you’ll have to be careful not to screw it up anyway because ‘doing nothing’ is not a strategy that lands you major chickage. Trust me.
2) You spend less time with her and more time with girls who seem to want to flirt with you. If you don’t know any, meet more girls until you do. Now, if she just wanted to be friends, she’ll be sad for a bit, but you stay strong. She’ll get over it, and soon, you’ll wonder what it was you saw in her in the first place. If she had any interest in you, on the other hand, your high ignore factor will only increase her chances of falling in love with you. But if you’re expecting that to happen, it never will. A watched uterus never boils, as they say.
3) Tell her exactly how you feel. Smile a lot and initiate non-threatening physical contact at times, like a hand on an arm or shoulder, but act like it’s not a big deal. Pretend you’re telling her about this really great movie you want her to see. Tell her exactly what you want from her: why don’t we just go out sometime on a date? Act like the boyfriend is not a big concern of yours. “But I have a boyfriend!” is a thing she might say, and to this you can respond “Sure. That’s fine. Take whatever time you need. But then, when you’re ready, let’s go out.” Or you could shrug and suggest, as though it didn’t really matter to you, that she just break up with him and date you instead. Say this as though it were inevitable, as though you don’t see why anyone wouldn’t do that. The goal here is to be direct and clear and force her to make a decision. Wishy washy never got anybody laid. If it doesn’t go well, you can make up and still be friends, and then you can go into option 2 with a clear conscience. If it does, congratulations.
I think option 3 has the highest expectation value regardless of outcome, but it requires the highest investment of your balls. In other words, if you can muster up the desire, then go for it. But, for the love of all that is holy, please, do not do option 1, unless you want to be writing about her on a damned blog 5 years from now. Trust me; no one wants that.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Just stumbled across this post on Google, and it really matches my situation word-for-word. Now, I’m still in high school, but that’s really irrelevant. I think all relationships should be treated seriously. I’ve been friends with a girl for a few YEARS now, and it finally clicked that she’s absolutely amazing. She found out I had feelings for her in the most awkward, uncomfortable way possible: through a friend. I had told maybe two of my closest friends, whom I trust, and lo-and-behold she finds out the next day. The weird part is, she reacted in a positive way. No “let’s just be friends” messages, but then again, no sudden spark in interest other than what was already there, which was quite a bit of what I consider flirting. That’s kind of her personality, though, so this adds more problems to my dilemma. My guess would be she’s mulling the situation over, as it just happened recently, but I’m really not sure what to think. I could just bite the bullet and ask her out, but what if that ends up MAKING things awkward between us? The big thing in my mind right now is, what IS the next step? I know I have to do something, but I really don’t want to do something so drastic as to, as said, upset what we already have. Then again, if I don’t make a move, I’ll be thinking about this forever. I guess the best solution would be to just go for it as Justin said, and see what happens from there, right? Good. Again, this REALLY hits the nail on the head as to what I’m dealing with right now, and just typing out this post has actually greatly helped me… go figure. Thanks for the great blog post and the awesome comments guys – some great advice.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Just thought I’d give a quick update. I ended up pulling her aside and casually asked her out after classes today, effectively taking “Option 3″, and I’m glad I did, as she said yes. Even if she had turned me down, it would’ve been worth it. Guys, or even girls, just go for it. You’ll be glad you did, rather than wondering what could’ve been.
December 27th, 2007 at 4:36 am
i have owned up, and it is very difficult to revert back to a friendship… she has said that she sees me as just a good friend, but now, howdo i eliminate these feelings? it is too difficult to just brush it aside
December 29th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Wow, I’m 40 years old, and thought all this was behind me, way behind me… Well, here’s my situation… I really really like this girl, she’s my best friend’s stepdaughter’s best friend… She has a strong personality, smart (but acts dumb around her friends) acts tough, but she’ fragile, and no matter what, all I can do is think of her. I’ve known her for 2 years now, it started innocently enough, chatting, calling, facebook, and I keep getting very mixed signals. She’s recently out of a 4 year relationship with a, padon the expression, loser. She finally realised it and made the decision to break it off, a difficult decision (her first real love, etc…) Somehow during all this we got closer, and I found myself having feelings for her (there’s a 20 years difference) so I kept these feelings in check.
I will assume she doesn’t see me the same way I see her (oh, btw I’m not married or anything like that, I don’t cheat or enjoy 1 night stands). But my brain is becoming consumed with this. I do believe option 3 is the key, but she did confess to her best friend that she is off guys for a while. I also believe that the age difference would be a problem fro her, its something I thought about for 6 months before her breakup. This is a very complicated mess, that I have to be able to navigate hrough and cause the least amount of damage possible…
If anyone has any advice, it would be very appreciated, but at this point, I am certain that if I divulge my feelings to her and there is no reciprocity, the friendship will end (she’ll freak out), and although I’d really like to stay friends, I know she won’t be able to act normally around me… But if she’s ready to start something with me, then its all good…..
I know some of you will dissaprove of the age difference, but we do get along well, we talk for hours, make each other laugh, etc… She’s awesome and deserves someone who would dedicate their lives to making her happy and loved.
Thank you for any help…
January 9th, 2008 at 1:23 am
VB’s comment “Also, to any guy who has a crush on a girl friend: even if she rejects you, she will always be flattered. so she will have a little soft spot for you. always. so all is not lost.”
Right on. This is so true. As long as your friendship was good and real, even if you risk it all to find out you remain in the inevitable “just friends” realm, she will indeed always have a soft spot for you. Always. She will indeed be flattered and there will always be a place in heart that respects that courage. Always.
And indeed, I agree with the comments or sentiments that one does not have to censor themselves after returning to the friend zone. It can be difficult for either party to resume their normal, chatty level right away, so give yourself or the other person a grace period. It’ll be the kind of space and amount that you need to get back into comfortably being with one another, but then… at least… you are still friends.
January 14th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I’m probably one of the most rational and Cartesian person out there, but when it comes to love, my gut feeling takes over normal brain function. So I’ve lived love at first sight, and my feelings appear sooner rather than latter, therefore I’ve never fallen in love with a girl that I’ve had a mutual friendship from the start with… and I have many wonderful friends who are girls.
“Hot Project Manager” is different, we meet a few years back, but it’s only in the last six months that we’ve gotten to know each, and there has been quite a connexion over the last month or so. Both being in relationships this summer, F.O.E. could not be implemented properly ;-) Recently, after almost bailing out, I managed to tell her, that I have feelings for her (Justin, “Trust me, these kinds of chapters hurt me more than they hurt you.” is what made me pull through. I know how difficult it must have been to write that last post, so thanks a million).
Her response definately falls under the third category, but with a twist: Her best relationships have always been after falling in love with a friend. So basically, she thinks that I’m an awesome person and she thinks something “could” happen, but she needs more time for us to get to know each other better and see if feelings arise. Like I’ve said, this idea that love could/should/would pass through friendship first, is just a bit foreign to me.
So I guess, you could say that I’m in relationship purgatory. She knows I have feelings for her and that I’m going to keep building my case as a potential boyfriend. Surprisingly, there aren’t any censorship issues between us, but there aren’t any other potential guys to warrant either… for the time being.
I can be a gambling man, but I need help to figure out the odds of her developing feelings for me. How many of you, have fallen in love with once plutonic friends? Be honest now, we’ve all entered the friend’s zone on false pretences ;-) I know I could cut my losses and run, but I haven’t had feelings like this in a very long time, so I really need to see how deep the rabbit-hole goes, or I will be full of regret.
This has really turned into the “self help” section of the blog, hasn’t it ;-)
January 16th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Wow… how did I miss this post when I went back to drink in the entire history of ATISTG?
Like you, I am long-time partners with The Friend Zone. Having recently resolved to rectify that… damn, I can’t think of a synonym for ’situation’ that starts with ‘R’. Anyway, I think your advice is dead-on. It’s very similar to my own advice. (Which proved to be not-quite dead-on originally, and has been corrected for submission here)
Going for a kiss during a friend-cuddle might be too bold for most TFZ-lifers. (Because, let’s be honest, we’re a shy bunch of guys.) My advice here (and I hate to say it comes from a PUA guidebook) is to ask, “Do you want to kiss me?” There are three possibilities:
1) She kisses you. You have your nonverbal answer. The kiss should tell you exactly what you need to know about how she feels. (A kiss on the cheek, for example, means you’re hosed.)
2) She says, “Yes.” This is usually accompanied by a “Come hither” look much like the one that Nala gave Simba while they’re wrestling in The Lion King. Move in and lay one on her. Again, you should get all the feedback you need from this kiss.
3) She says, “No.” This opens up a new box of bullet-points:
3a) You can play it off cool and say, “Well, I didn’t say you could. You just had a funny look in your eyes like maybe you wanted to.” (And then you can excuse yourself to the bathroom and cry like Tonya Harding’s ex-husband just whacked your knee in the parking lot.)
3b) You can be honest, which is always the route I suggest, and say, “Well, I want to kiss you. And it’s tearing me up inside to think that we’d be so totally awesome together! How about it?” And then you can either get her to change the No to a Yes, or you can get rejected outright and do the bathroom-trip to cry like the alluded-to Nancy Kerrigan.
3c) You can be honest, and brutal, and say “That’s too bad. You’re missing out.” And then excuse yourself to go home, get the necessary cry out of the way, and move on with your life. She might call. She might not. If she does call, she might say that there’s nothing there but friendship, which she cherishes and doesn’t want to lose. But either way, you’ve knocked down the wall and brought honesty into your friendship, and honesty is liberating in any situation.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Don’t say, “Do you want to kiss me?” It doesn’t work. It’s awkward. I mean, this whole blog is awkward but that is awkward in a bad way. It freaks us out to be asked that by someone who relationship to us is so…fluid.
Amy is totally right though. And if you do take the plunge and finally ask her out and she says no, just give the friendship a few days to bounce back. Give each other some space.
Also, from a girls point of view, if you get that sixth sense that a guy-friend is started to have stronger feelings for you or re-kindle stronger feelings from years before when you turned him down the first time, give him space. It’s unfair to spend all you time with him when you know his feelings for you are delicate. Give him a few days to let those old sparks die down. Guy-friends will tend to get these sparks for the “just friends” girl right after a break-up or rejection by someone they like. Girls do the same things to their guy-friends.
Or maybe I’m just crazy.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
This is what’s taken me the 25 years since puberty to figure out: You don’t want to be with someone who only sort of wants to be with you. If you let her know you want to be with her, and she’s not totally psyched about it, this is not a relationship you really want.
Like I said: it took me a long time to figure this out. In that time, I’ve been through countless crushes, several long relationships, two weddings and one divorce. So believe me when I tell you that you want, and deserve, to be with somebody who thinks you’re totally awesome.
If you’ve got a crush on someone and are afraid to say something, the fear is coming from your belief that they won’t choose you for whatever reason. But you still want to know if it’ll work, and the only way you can do that is by breaking your silence.
So, really, all you have to do is choose between the familiar fantasy and the unknown reality. Which is a scary choice, hence the tension.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I have been on all 3 sides of this. It’s painful all the way around.
The first, and probably worst was a situation where I was dating a girl but to young to break it off after a year and a half for another girl. By the time we broke up, I had missed my chance…this actually went on for about 5 years back and forth every 6 months or so. We never got hooked up and I haven’t seen or heard from her in a decade but I still think about her every now and then.
The second time I was the one single and in love with someone out of reach. The situation was horrible, I watched a great and beautiful person disintegrate due to drugs and alcohol. I was always there for her, but she only wanted me there when things were bad. A shoulder to cry on. Someone she could always count on. So I can relate to Justin and HCE on such a level that it hurts to read. I eventually got so miserable with the situation I simply removed myself from the whole area. Moving halfway across the country helped a lot. What is crazy about this is she followed me. So I repeated the action, and she followed again. I have since moved a third time and seem to have shaken her loose this time but if I see her here I will move out of the country!
The third time I was dating my current girlfriend and was on the receiving end. I was in college and two semesters from graduating when an girl transfered to my school. Unfortunately I love my girl with all my heart and the new girl had moved to get away from a relationship and then tries to steal me away from mine. She was so lonely and had no/few friends though I couldn’t help but feel bad because she was laying out her heart every other week and was getting nowhere. It didn’t hurt us as friends really, but our course work was done in a group environment and the other people in our group were more weirded out about the situation than me and her were. I hope me moving away after graduation helped her get her new life started.
The best advice I can offer from a guy’s point of view is you have to let her know. As quickly as possible too. You only live once and thinking “what if” for the rest of your life is worse than knowing you tried.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
MikeT–good call. It’s only taken me about 12 years to learn the same thing, but imagine an unruly memory-foam mattress being super-squeezed out of an old-fashioned clothes wringer–it was a tough lesson to learn and there is always a tendency to go to the shape I used to be.
Life experiences for a geek have a way of really knocking us to the ground, but our ‘profound’ intelligence usually gets us back up on our feet. You don’t want to be with someone that only ’sort of’ wants to be with you and vice-versa: you really don’t want to be with someone that you only sort of want. No truer assertion was ever made. There is a whole psychology and philosophical aspect begotten of why this is true, but just trust me (“us”–MikeT, the rest of us), you aren’t going to want to look back and wonder what your life would have been like if you’d developed the courage early on (and confidence) to realize you deserved more than the half-hearted party.
This is coming from someone who married for pity on the less-confident geek.
January 24th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Yeah, I agree.
Find out if the girl likes you the same, if not vanish, find someone else.
Guys whatever you fear, face it first.
If the friendship is worth keeping, she will do more to keep you there.
Don’t know what you have till you loose it, so find someone else, and see if your valuable after all.
Kinda like why all lay load on the willing horse, if you take *@#% people sure will give it to you. Got to leave, vanish. I personally do it just to piss people off for fun, tell girls that are friends I will call, never do, learning to be a jerk, from being pissed off at being a nice guy.
Sorry ladies, not I am not.
Its working.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
With the third option, I think you can get out of the friend’s zone, without being a jerk. After you made your feelings known, you need to honestly think about what is best for you and not let yourself be taken advantage of… So trying to keep a level head, recognising when you are being manipulated are very important when you’re navigating in a “limbo” situation. Doing what’s best for you may be to give some space or let go. I’m sure that often, it’s best for both persons involved… Getting perspective or thinking about what you really want, doesn’t mean you have to play games…
As for me, I’m no longer in the friend’s zone. After telling Hot Project Manager that I like her, I felt relieved and was able to shake off my nervousness and be myself ;-) With my intentions clear, we kept seeing each other. You know, it’s never too late to put F.O.E. back into operation, since our friendship became something more… Don’t fool yourself, this an unorthodox situation, and you need to be certain that there is something to work with, if you choose to go down that path.
So I guess my cushy advice is to listen to yourself. And if the girl, you’ve told your feelings to, calls and you want to talk to her, without expecting to be emotionally crippled for the next week, then pick up the phone! Just keep being honest about how you feel, without being overwhelming or creepy.
So I bid you farewell dear “Zone”, cause I’ve found my lobster. I’ll send postcards, but I don’t plan on returning ;-)
February 2nd, 2008 at 8:36 pm
hey guys need some help. theres this girl i reli like in college, we were indroduced through a friend, so anyway, were quite friendly now, every time i see her we give eachother tight hugs, and we talk alot about things like music. she says (not to me) that she likes a certain type of dude which isnt me. well she does modeling (looks reli hot), and i guess im average looking (way out ma league). the other day we huged eachother so that our cheeks were touching eachother (was i meant to kiss her on the cheek? anyway i try to make it obvious that i like her, like i play with her hair, always huging her, telling her how nice she looks, and she returns the hugs and plays with my hair. well i guess an important thing is that i make her laugh all the time. i kinda like the relation ship how it is but i reli reli like her in a different way………so u think she likes me???
February 12th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Totally had this happen in highschool. It was so painful.
I’m now best friends/roomates with the girl. It played out almost exactly like you described.
February 21st, 2008 at 2:00 am
As a new ‘Rejectee’, I recommend FOE. Personally, I moved from opt#1 to #3 very quickly (probably too quickly.)
She is not the type of ‘cute-looking’ girl I always have crushes on. Rather, she is good-looking and attractive (in a general way, I mean, every guy would think she’s attractive, but not particularly so) and easy-going (her big smile and laughters are so contagious in parties.) In short, I have secrectly admired her for about 2 years but only until 6 months ago we began to make one-on-one conversations. (It took an ORDEAL for me to make it happen — and take my words for it, you don’t want to try my method.) Then I realized that what attracted me the most was her great personality: I had such an up-lifting feeling simply being with her. Certainly she is physically attractive to me but the up-lifting felling is the most overwhelming. But I had no idea how she thought about me. The circumstance is, we are in a fast-rotating working place (yes, we work together, but never closely) and I don’t know when I would have to move on or when she would. I knew I would have regretted for my whole life if I had not confessed it to her.
And so after a few flirtings, I expressed my feeling to her. Two e-mails and one week later, I had the verdict. Firstly, she was completely caught off-guard by me (hence the one-week waiting). Secondly, she just began dating someone else. Thirdly, she had never expected romantic relationship between two of us. And same as many other guys had described in their experience, she offered continuing friendship.
The aftermath:
1, It is indeed painful to be rejected. She is such a great girl.
2, It is a big relief that I finally moved out of the ‘Friend ZONE’.
3, From now on, friendly? Absolutely. Friends? NO. It won’t work for me.
4, I have started looking for new opportunities.
Some thoughts:
Should I have confessed much earlier? Maybe. Maybe not. Because she would never had the same feeling as she had stated clearly.
Was I right to choose to confess and take the pain? Yes. Or I would have delayed knowing the truth not for 2 years, but for 4 years or even longer. Everything would be TOO late for both of us.
So, guys, if you have a special feeling for a girl, DO tell her!
March 5th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
I wrote an article about how to stay out of the friendzone also. I like what you wrote about the whole waiting thing. You know, where you want to be available when her and her boyfriend break up. I went through that myself. Anyway, my article is shorter than your but kind of goes with it.
http://taylorsadvicecolumn.blogspot.com/2008/02/5-ways-to-stay-out-of-friendzone.html
March 12th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
lol
this is exactly what happened to me
i was in love with my best friend for like 2 years
then i told her how i felt while i was going out with this other chick who was cool but turned out to have issues
and that killed that relationship
then since she was silent when i told her how i felt when i was in a relationship, i kept telling her to tell me she diin feel the same way, but she wouldnt, also later at one piont she kept trying to tell me that she liked me an i was like wat? like i diin here her
then a while later i asked her out…..
an she says no
so….
wtf ever
girls are complex
go out with them quickly
too long as friends kills the posibility of anything else
usually
like 99% of the time
and dont assume your life is a fairytale and must be that other 1%
March 15th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
ok, so i’m in a relationship right now. but here is this girl who is my best friend and she know i like her…. no no she knows that i’m in love with her.. and she tells me that she loves me too(and not like in a friend way) but this girl i’m dating i love too… and i cant decide…. i’m screwed and i feel like crap
March 30th, 2008 at 9:47 am
I have out in life, that it is the nice guys that come last, and now i really like this girl who could give me a chance but im in the freind zone , i have all the symptoms!!!!
AAaAgGgGRrRrRHHhH
April 11th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I’ve touched on this topic as well.
This is all well and good but Justin…let’s have some advice for a lady! I’ve been suffering the heartbreak of an unrequited love for four years now! My best guy friend doubles as my soulmate (too bad he doesn’t know it). We flirt..my god we flirt, we spend the night with eachother (nothing more than cuddling), we have hour long conversations via telephone, we have EVERYTHING in common yet I’m pretty sure this love story is a one way street. Thing is, I think he knows I’m head over heels, I mean I feel like it’s pretty damn obvious. But I get nothing…and I can’t tell him. He’s seriously my BEST friend crush or not. I’d be shattered if I lost him. I’d rather have him around knowing I can never HAVE him then telling him how I feel and risk losing my bestest bud.
But what do you think? Maybe I’m just being a silly girl. I never know in these situations. I’m the girl that has all guy friends who see her as their little sister. Ugh…what do I do?
April 11th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
KC:
I’d be shocked if anything I said in that blog post didn’t apply for women as well as for men. I think cultural factors would actually lead to a higher success rate for women, if I were to speculate.
Frankly, I think you tell him how you feel. But that’s unless you enjoy painful unrequited love, like me.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:10 am
How have I never seen this site before!? :) This is the sort of down to earth, no nonsense advice I could have done with 10 years ago!
OK, here’s my situation: I’ve met an amazing girl at work and we seem to have hit it off. It’s all low-key stuff so far – long email chats about nothing in particular (when we should be working) and going for breaks together. We tease each other and talk easily about personal stuff. Seeing that the dreaded FZ was fast approaching, I was building up to (I believe the term I’ve seen used elsewhere is) “putting on a man suit and ‘fessing up” how I feel about her (or at least asking her out on a date) when quite by chance she told me that she’s only just (a couple months ago) broken up with a guy she was really into (it’s definitely finished btw) and she’s not over it yet. She called later and said she’s sorry she wasn’t more upfront but seems pretty sure I just wanted to be friends.
Crap. Now I’m stuck in FZ with ‘rebound’ potential. What’s the collective wisdom here? Pathetic specimen that I am, I’m tempted to say “Well, actually, I do have feeling for you but it’s OK, you get over your ex and we’ll see where we go”.
Should I be humanely destroyed for my own protection? :)
April 12th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Here’s something from a girl who is taking mucho psychology classes including Psychology of Intimate Relationships.
I have been on the receiving end more times than I can count of guys who like me but are in the Friend Zone. Recently, i’m watching another one fall there.
So, here are a few cheats/tips for you:
1) Do something novel. Make yourself really stick out as a person in an attracting way. Not “act totally strange all the time,” but make it so she doesn’t have a million other friends like you (which is usually where the friend zone starts for me. not that i don’t appreciate my friends, but when I find a guy I like, something usually catches me about him.) It’s been scientifically proven that novelty and psychological arousal (fear, excitement, etc.) will raise attraction in people. So, see what you can do with that. The guy i’ve met recently is a little shy and not so forward, but I think that if he was being more aggressive, I’d give in before he fell into the FZ.
2) Be careful about how forward you get. I can’t stress this enough. Hearing that a guy likes me when I don’t like him isn’t so bad. I feel sad because I can’t do much and I try to dull down my more ambiguous statements/actions so that he won’t misinterpret anything. However, I’ve also been practically molested by some guys I knew liked me, and, frankly, it puts a huge damper on my friendship with them. You feel uncomfortable around them a lot and violated. So don’t be super forward. A kiss is fine.
3) Do not get the girl in a vulnerable state to confess to her or try to kiss her or whatever. Especially after a hard break-up, when she’s drunk, or when she’s feeling super emotional. You won’t get a good answer. And you won’t get an honest answer. Chances are your confession/action will fall onto someone who will accept the attention as a little cure-all and if you kiss her, she may kiss you back and you’ll turn into a drunken mistake. Speaking from experience here, I’m not in the best place when those three things are happening and it’s hard enough for me to not choose to use your affection to make me feel better when i’m not feeling good. And when you’re drunk, half the time you’re just so damned horny that you’ll take it and run. (Never gone all the way like that, but started to.)
April 13th, 2008 at 12:19 am
uhh
this girl i just met a few weeks ago is really nice and stuff. she told me she likes me and i responded that i wanna get to know her better….
today i met her friend who is gorgeous and nice and we have so much in common. idk wut to do.. should i ditch one girl to be with the one i like?
or give the other one a chance?
May 5th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
i am searching for advice and this blog seems to a great place to ask. so here it goes my story.
i met this girl and from the first time i’ve seen her i knew she’s the girl for me. we started out texting each other and a few phone calls here and there. and when we do go out, she gives out all the right body languages, leaning toward me while i’m driving, turns her body all the way to face me face to face, give lame excuses (like i hv a splinter) so that i can touch her hand. make a long story short, all the signs were there, texts me when she gets home etc blah blah, u get the picture. the problem is … out of blue she stop calling, texting, and is acting very distant and cold….i am wondering if she lost interest bcuz i didnt make a move. if so how can i re-kindle that fire that we had. i have a feeling there might be another guy involve. and yes .. i was a wuss .. i saw all the signs and chickened out .. and now i think i’m in the “friend zone” i am desperate… please help!!!!!
May 6th, 2008 at 1:22 am
To be honest bobby, you may have missed your chance. BUT that doesnt mean you should let it all go. This has happened to me before and it ended up being a few months before I talked to this girl again (who i never did anything with). But once we started talkin again it was like we picked up from where we left off. So the advice Im going to give you is that you should wait a couple days and then shoot her a text or something like “hey loser whats up” or “hi :)”. Ive used these and they are very effective. Also, kind of be a smart-ass when you talk to her, because girls really dig smart-asses for some reason (also a technique I have recently used, ENORMOUSLY effective).
And by the way, if there is a guy, you’re going to have to show her that you are a lot more funner to be around and hang out with than him. Because if he wants her, he WILL NOT just hand her over to you if she’s giving him the right signals. But thats how life is always going to be, and there are always guys that are going to challenge you for a woman. Good Luck.
May 6th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
~BobbyC: you’ve missed your chance. Get over it. Or do as BigPapi says, but only try it once – if she still doesn’t give you any signals, stop it or you’ll annoy the crap out of her.
May 6th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
thanks Big and Lenf!!! great advice!
May 6th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
hey I’ve been reading sites like this because I am a geek like that when it comes to relationships. so far this site has been the best I’ve found for this stuff, so I wanted to ask for strangers’ opinions to sound out against my own thoughts:
So I met this girl last year and hung out with her in group settings but spent most of those times mainly with her. I went ahead and told her how I felt but it was extremely awkward and she said she just wanted to be friends and school ended on that. Then over summer I messaged her a few times and we got to talking again but then I realized I didn’t think I could be “just friends.” So I just stopped talking to her. there was a really strained period where she kept trying to reach me, and I didn’t know what to do…but we started seeing each other again and were friends when school picked back up. now its a year later, we’ve gotten to know each other better, gone out on dates but nothing serious, and now I have this very strong urge to tell her that if anything I like her more now than before, or maybe not say anything and just kiss her. i believe in true love but i also fear rejection (again) greatly. and i like her alot as a friend too but i think that i’ve been deceptive in our friendship in having keeping these feelings. so my question is, thoughts on round 2 (two weeks left in school)?
May 7th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Max….dont try and jus make out with her cuz that will create awkwardness….especially because she doesnt (according to u) know how u feel about her. But u definitely need to let her know how u feel. So use subtle signals like flirting with her. Also kind of be a smartass (as ive said in earlier advice) when u text her and are in her presence (basically act like ur “the man”, but dont take it over board and become arrogant cuz this is unattractive to women). If a girl sees that u have confidence in urself then she will begin to have confidence in u as well. Ull see that if u love urself, women will begin to love u. I have learned this technique, and women have been more attracted to me than ever before. MAKE SURE u flirt with her though, so she will get all the rite signals. U need to get it in her head that u “dont need” her, and that she actually “needs u”.
And regarding the rejection…the most honest answer i can give u is get used to it. Women are going to reject u for the rest of ur life. EVERY SINGLE man on this planet has been rejected by a woman before. Most however, instead of thinking there is something wrong with them, use it as a learning process on how to “get” women. If u want an “easy” way to get over rejection, go out and try to get rejected by women, and see wat happens. Ull see that getting rejected isnt nearly as bad as it seems. Ya, it may hurt at first, but time heals everything, and there is literally billions of girls around the world. I mean, Im giving this advice and i live in kansas, where there isnt as many women as in big cities. But I guarantee u, there is always another girl, no matter where anyone lives. Its all a matter on how hard u look.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:31 am
And by the way if ANY GUY needs advice on ANYTHING about women u should read the book titled “The Game” by Neil Strauss. Reading this book has improved my understanding of wat women really want and has improved my “game” a thousand times over. I have talked to more girls than i ever have before, and I am NO LONGER in any friend zones with them unless i CHOOSE to be. Its really a great feeling. Any other questions tho just ask.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Here’s an update to my previous post.
i got played! Let me ask you guys/girls…. if someone says to you “hey u like sports right?” and i say yes, then she says “i hv 2 tickets for tomorrow night do you want to go?” wouldnt you automatically assume that you are going with that person that ask you? so i said sure! (btw this is the girl i was talking about on my previous post.) just to be sure.. i asked her who i will be going with … and she said her friend. (i was thinking wtf!) i really thought it was a joke….but it turns out ..she was trying to hook me up with her gay friend …… (i am not gay btw and i hv nothing against gay ppl) … i am now extremely upset, not at the fact that she’s not interested in me, but how she is insulting my manhood …. this is BS if you ask me.
my question is this, should i never speak or interact with her again or act as if she help me open a new door to meet other girls? (as you know gay guys does know a lot of straight girls.)
May 9th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
I just don’t get how thinking you’re gay is “insulting your manhood”. Seriously.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:00 am
I can see where ur comin from bobby. Honestly what i think you should do is move on from this girl. Go out and meet different women, and you’ll find one that fits for you
June 15th, 2008 at 4:38 am
Well, as much as I don’t want to be just another person asking for advice while thinking that my story truly takes the proverbial cake, I have found this website to be very helpful and the posts to be insightful (even if it is only therapeutic). So I’m asking for any advice on my own awkward situation…
Last year I met this girl let’s call… Peace Corps Freckles (PCF for short), who after only a few interactions I felt was the girl I had been waiting for ever since I was old enough to know that I was actually waiting for someone. We hit things off right away and in fact I had heard from a mutual friend that she might have had a bit of a crush on me. We spent as much time together as we could until PCF told me that (I’m sure you see what’s coming here) she had indeed joined the Peace Corps, and would be leaving for the Philippines in a few weeks. We enjoyed the time we had together before she left, yet I felt like there was this huge boulder between us that I couldn’t quite get around. The peace corps is a two-year commitment and I felt like anything that may have been between us was pretty much, for all statistical purposes, not happening. It was sort of unspoken that we were not going to make any kind of long distance commitment like this. I mean I’ve had long distance relationships before, but not literally half way around the world in a 3rd-world country. (In fact, I think I would have made this commitment, but she wasn’t going to).
Without giving too many boring details, I actually went and visited PCF in the Philippines and just got back last week. She was not the only reason I went there (that would have been borderline stalker-ish), but she was a big reason I decided to go. We spent a week together in this tropical paradise, sleeping in the same bed together, but without any physical cuddling or anything (as much as I would have liked to flirt with physical contact, I also wanted to respect the friend line and not ruin a great time we were having). The last night there, at dinner I make my awkward attempt to explain how I feel. And as we’ve all experienced before… for some reason the system in my brain that controls speech and comprehensible language decided to go on break for those few minutes.
After all this, I flew back to the states feeling like I did not get across what I was trying to say. Peace Crops Freckles knows that I like her; I mean you don’t fly to the Philippines to see just anyone (plus I’ve done a few other things to show her). However, I don’t think she knows quite how much I like her. Also, I am a bit unsure how she feels. We had a great time together, and it often seems like she’s flirting, but she’s one of those girls where it’s just hard to tell. So, do I try to forget about her for a year (she’s all I’ve thought about since I got back) and wait until she gets back and then see if she wants to start dating. Or, do I send her a message on facebook (we’ve been able to stay in touch on the book while she’s over there, but not very often) and tell her how I really feel, and ask her how she feels? I really feel like I should spill my guts and explain exactly how I feel and ask her how she feels about me, but even if she does say she likes me, there’s not much we can do about it. This situation is frustrating, and I speculate in saying that writing this post is partly just to help me think about the situation. But if anyone has any reactions or awkward advice I would appreciate it.
Changing the subject completely and ending: Is it just me, or is Curb Your Enthusiasm not the best show ever? Great awkward humor.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Phil,
Dont be a fool, girls knows when you like them. She may have been waiting for you to make the first move. If you have her address in the Philippines my suggestion is to write her a well thought out letter expressing your feelings for her. (i know i know it sounds cheesy.) Eventhough we live in a email/text/facebook world now … girls still appreciate the time and effort you put into writing her a beautiful letter. Oh and please DON’T use binder paper, go out and buy some nice pen and paper. Maybe go online or to a book store and learn how to write a love letter. Its going to take a few drafts to get it right but trust me its well worth the time. Writing a letter will not only give you the time to gather your thoughts it gives you time to really express the deep emotions you have for her. i know this is not much of an advice but its worth a try… what more do you have to lose. good luck!
June 20th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
right now i really like this girl who is my friend, and she says she likes me too, yet she threw me in the friend zone. i am very confused about this, and it feels terrible, and i dont want to move on because i really like her, she seems so perfect to me, like that special one.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I only ever develop crushes on guys I’ve been friends with first. :) So maybe the Friend Zone isn’t that bad a place to be with some girls, especially with oblivious types like me. I just don’t notice male attention unless it’s really obvious or if I’m actively looking for it.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:11 am
The Friend Zone….the one place you can truly be where alcohol seems the solution.
Anyways just too add my two cents to this conversation.
I met a girl….and we became best friends(get this I had not intentions of wanting to date her)…..and then I fell incredibly hard for her, but it was such a difficult thing for me because this girls friendship means so much more than a relationship that(might not) last. Anyways I told her how I felt…and know she had no interest in me, but you know what….we still remained best buddies, and thats what matters to me.
Now while I am not “over” her, I am seeing a lesbian(What a trip) and put no stock in there ever being a relationship with this other girl no matter how I feel.
I think in the end if your so worried about losing your friendship, don’t be because if that girl is really your friend, she’s not just going to end the friendship with you….and if your really her friend your not going to end the friendship because you feel madly for her.
And after all that there is always substance abuse(joking of course).
But now I do need to add something to this conversation because this bugs me about this one girl.
The thing is is that she has another close friend who is a guy who is in a similar situation to me….but this guy just trys to make her feel terrible because she doesn’t like him back(and he’s rather creepy)….and yet she’s friends with him. Basically though she definitely marches to the beat of her own drum…she doesnt date anyone and it seems all the guys that meet her fall into this cruel “friend zone”. I suppose it is truly absurd.
Well time to go listen to Neutral Milk Hotel and Elliott Smith….and wish I wasn’t so foolish.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:14 am
I look back and think though….isn’t it funny that I voluntarily put myself into the friendzone more or less….had interest for other girls and then the feelings had to hit me?
Life is ironic.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Ok guys, need your help on this one. I have been friends with a girl for three years and i dont know where i stand. She is very pretty, has a fantastic figure and challenges me constantly which i am strongly attracted to. She sends me mixed signals all the time, but strongly maintains that i am her best friend, and would never do anything with me. This is the only girl i have ever felt this way about( not the most morally upright of guys ), and i want to know if i should just tell her and at least kill the feeling if she rejects me(which looks likely). But after such a long friendship and the fact that i see her all the timewith my other friends, i wonder if this is worth it in the long run.
Should i keep trying to wait it out? ( get back to me quick, i am sick of the constant talking about her jackass boyfriends)
thanks guys
July 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
screw it, i told her and she handled it horribly. Ah well, not the one for me.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
You want to join the “I Hate Myself And Want To Die Because I’m such an Idiot” club….we’re always looking for new members.
The best thing to do is get drunk….and listen to Elliott Smith….I tell you it works.
July 21st, 2008 at 6:30 am
ah well, i was drunk at the time. Still took balls though. Been two weeks and no word from her. You would think i would care more. The upside is i dont have to listen to any more whining about Boyfriend X or Jackass Y
so far The Streets have helped me get over it;)
July 25th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
This is good, this is good, and you come to find you never feel the way you expect yourself too. My girlfriend just left me for some girl….and you know it really wasn’t so bad, I actually found myself thinking sweet freedom…well after I got over it.
Just find someone else….they’re out there. The cliched advice of many other fish out in the sea, it may not be as true as you wish it was, but at least if offers some solace.
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm
ok i’m in the friend zone but the problem is, i’m the BEST friend.
how is it possible for the “seventh circle of hell” to seem soo much like heaven?,
part of it is due to this mutualism we both seem to have where we already know how it should be, but we both live a little too much of a “fast-paced” lifestyle and both share the desire to learn as much as possible while we’re free in life.
Am I Waiting For The Biggest Letdown Of My Life?
or
Have I Found My Soul Mate Way Too Early?
.
is anybody out there… w/b
August 20th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
I say this as a puppy. Girl’s don’t want to fuck puppies. They want to cuddle them and play with them. One time, when I thought there was no remote shot, I treated a girl like shit. Which for me is like breathing….rocks? It just wasn’t natural, but I stuck with it. When I say shit, I mean that relatively. I mean that I wasn’t as nice as normal. I would say jokingly, “get me a beer I gotta piss” and just get up. When a pro skater dude was hitting on her and she was motioning me to come save her, I laughed and shook my head. When she was talking about the guy she was pining for I told her to “please shut up with that shit.” We were writing notes on the chalkboard for the pool table. In my most mature moment I wrote, “you stink, but you’re kinda hot.” She started rubbing the back of my head. I started biting on her ear, we went to the beach and made out in front of bums under the pier while drinking champagne. It was rad. I have yet to repeat that performance. Normally I would have gotten all her drinks, paid for it, and given her advice on her man problems. I think my mother really fucked my head up.
August 28th, 2008 at 8:57 am
So i have this problem with a girl just like all the other guys. So i’ve kinda fallen for my best friend. The problem is she has a boyfriend who treats her like crap. Now she knows i like her because i’ve told her, but she tells me shes upset that shes not with me because she fell in love with the ass. I don’t know what to do because i really like her and i don’t want to force her into a decision because i would rather have her as a friend and maybe have some hope in the future than lose her completely. Any help?
September 1st, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Hi Justin
I empathize to a scary degree with the It’s Not A Date story. Also with the Friend Zone observations. In fact, I made a Choose Your Own Adventure game called Escape From Friend Zone (escape is actually impossible). The epic IM session with HCE is especially world-shattering.
http://www.peroxidecomics.com/archives/friend_zone_game/
September 15th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
First of all I love this blog it’s great stuff.
Secondly, I wish I would have read this earlier, as I am in this very predicament. I was friends with this girl, best friends, I never really thought of her as more than that. That is, at least, until she broke up with her boyfriend. I began hanging out with her more, feelings started to grow, etc. I would almost be brave enough to say I’ve been falling in love with her. Well, a few months ago I had told her how I felt (I left out that four letter word, that would have made the whole conversation WAY too awkward), but it hasn’t changed our relationship, we talk just as much as we always have just with a lot more physical contact. I’ve written her poems and songs and the such, she knows exactly how I feel. I know , as well, that she has feelings for me. However, she was in a very long relationship and is still trying to get over that guy. I’m just curious as to how long I should wait?
As well my little tale also shows that it’s sometimes best to clench your teeth, and let her know how you feel. It will be weird at first, but it’s for the best in the end, honestly.
October 8th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I wish I could be one to give advice to those seeking it, but sadly I’m just another one in the crowd here to share my story and seek sympathy and advice. I’ve been friends (not best) with this girl for a while now, but she had a boyfriend for the majority of the time. I wasn’t pining after her secretly or anything, so the thought of anything happening between us never really crossed my mind. But then over the summer, she broke up with that long-time boyfriend, which is always a great thing to get that force I call my imagination working.
I feel like I need to give some background on both of us before I continue. I would feel fairly safe in saying we are both the type who naturally gravitate towards introvertedness (why else would I be here?), she being worse than I. So keep that in mind ahead when you think I fail to act when I should – I’m keeping her in mind guys, like all of us seem to want to do.
So fast forward to about a month ago, and we’ve started to hang out/talk more – I would chill in her room between classes and the like (this is in college by the way). So SHE eventually suggests we go see a movie we had been talking about. We go out to dinner (where she forgets her money after offering to pay her half – on purpose? I don’t know) then see the movie, and go back to her room. Remember earlier when I said we were both really, really extroverted people? Yeah, we stayed up until 5 in the morning just talking, and I slept the rest of the night on her futon. I know, I know, I should win some kind of award for lameness. So when I leave the next day, I said the whole “That was fun, we should do something else sometime” to which she agreed.
Eventually we set up another movie to be watched (It was a whole joke about her lack of movie experience, jeez, lay off) the next weekend. So during the movie, I figure it’s time to get big (for me at least) and go for the arm around the shoulder, because I’m such a smooth operator. But done and done, that’s it, finish the movie, talk some more (I’m so in), but both of us had previously known other things to do afterward. I thought it went well overall and was in a good mood the rest of the day.
The next few days though, I detected some weird vibes from her. So I did just about the smartest thing ever and asked her roommate (who I also know well) what was going on, because I knew this girl would never say anything. I got basically the copy-paste Friend Zone answer, so lately I’ve been trying to distance myself a little. This has seemed to work out well so far, as there hasn’t been that much awkward feeling in the air. Mostly I was left feeling a little annoyed she didn’t tell me anything, and a lot disappointed. Sorry about the length, but this has been quite cathartic to write.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I had a strange urge one day to see what the most awkward things you can say when you’re drunk are and google brought me to your page. I’m was quickly intrigued by your personality and writing style and pretty much been reading them one-by-one whenever I have a spare minute at work. Thanks for keeping work fun.
Sick article, but did you really have to bring string theory into it? lol. Good analogy nevertheless.
December 4th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
This blog is fantastic! Obviously, I’ve only recently found it…..but wow…. I’m certainly going to be coming back.
That One Guy: hopefully you’ve found your solution by now….? It HAS been nearly 3months. Though, she may need longer to think things through (I would). You’d hate to become the re-bound she dropped 2months down the track…..
As for my story, I WAS the girl who had a boyfriend…and a friend who wanted more. We met (I got a small crush….), and we texted/emailed/facebook-ed. He knew I had a boyfriend, told me how he felt….and said he’d wait as long as necessary (guys, THIS is adorable…..seriously, if done in a ‘non-creepy’ sort of way). Being the practical girl that I am, I realised that IF I even entertained the IDEA of liking another guy…my relationship wasn’t what I had thought it should be. I broke it off – stayed friendly to all parties involved (I needed to cool the situation a little – forbidden lust is easily mistaken for something stronger)……and, a month (or three) down the track I’m ENTIRELY smitten with my best-friend/boyfriend extraordinaire…..good luck!
December 7th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I have a rather interesting twist with my current “friend zone” friend. All and all, I have to say her influence has been a positive one, because of her I’ve gone back to collage, and am working hard to finish, and I have been paying more attention to my health and finances. Which might not be so strange… The strange part is that I (the guy) have been proposed (more or less) to on three separate occasions, one time at work, and one other time with her mother present. She is from another country and wanted help getting her permanent resident visa faster. It would of course be a platonic marriage. And once she got her papers, we would divorce.
As much as I’d love to help her, she is in no danger of being deported, and I take marriage too seriously to go threw with such a thing. And yet I wonder…
January 24th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Well, I’ve been looking all over for someone in my situation and have yet to find anyone.
All the articles Ive found have been dealing with guys that are friends with a girl but want to date her. Here’s my story in a nutshell:
I met this girl in Nov. 2007 and we quickly became good friends. Hung out every day, she crashed at my place etc. but thats all we were truly good friends. But then about 4 months later she initiated some physical contact and it led to us making out. When we went to bed, I thought we’d date. However, the next morning she said she felt really weird about the whole thing and we decided to be just friends……for a month. Then it happened again, initiated by her and we ended up having sex. Decided to date.
Things were great for 2-3 months, we went on a trip etc. but then things went downhill we started arguing a lot and had very little sex like maybe once in 2-3 weeks on average. Things got really bad in Dec 2008 and I decided to calm down and absolutely not start any fights. We havent fought since then but she had already distanced herself from me. Finally, in the past month ie Jan 2009 shes been saying that shes not attracted to me and sees me just as a friend although officially we are still a couple and she’ll come and kiss me every now and then but when things start to escalate physically she’ll pull away because she feels weird. We are happy when we are just hanging out or going out, she just gets weird when the conversation goes toa gf/bf area or things get physical.
So, Ive been her bf for more than 10 months, we’ve done everything that couples do and here I find myself in the friend zone?
Any comments?
March 25th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
REALLY GREAT ARTICLE. I completely agree with everything you wrote about. Most guys don’t realize that generating attraction is the first thing that a man stuck in the friend zone should work on doing. These tactics you wrote about does exactly that.. Great post!
March 25th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
“Mnemonic.” NOT PNEUMONIC. Get it right!
March 26th, 2009 at 1:37 am
“Mnemonic” is wanted in place of “pneumonic”
May 13th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
it took me a while but i finally stepped up and asked this girl that i really like out but got rejected, she said I entered the friend zone and she see’s me as a friend. I was wondering how i could like make her see me as more of the boyfriend type, rather than just friends. i really like her. after she rejected me i told her i still liked her and that i wont quit and she smiled and said she was happy i told her the truth..
July 7th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
“Thing is, I think he knows I’m head over heels, I mean I feel like it’s pretty damn obvious. But I get nothing…and I can’t tell him. He’s seriously my BEST friend crush or not. I’d be shattered if I lost him. I’d rather have him around knowing I can never HAVE him then telling him how I feel and risk losing my bestest bud.”
KC (not that you’re likely to read this, but you *are* likely to be in the same situation six months later!):
Tell him, and tell him *furthermore* that friendship is more important to you than romance, so although you’d prefer the romance, you aren’t willing to risk the friendship.
If he’s at all worthy of your friendship, he will respect that. Whether he agrees to try dating or turn you down, he will make every effort to maintain the friendship despite the emotional difficulties. If he doesn’t try, then, well, he’s not the friend you thought he was.
I’ve done this with three different results, the most common of which was a successful friendship; I doubt that gender really makes a difference.
July 31st, 2009 at 10:25 pm
I’m pretty much in the same position as everyone else. I read the advice and now I’m thinkin that I gotta tell her. The problem is that I can’t ever see her in person, I’ve only been talkin to her on tha phone everyday. We’re going to tha same college and her boyfriend isn’t in college (def a good thing), but tha problem is, she starts school next month, and I start it in January. Should I just tell her over tha phone and let it stew for a few months before I see her or do I wait until then so I can tell her in person?
August 14th, 2009 at 1:03 am
I love this post. It’s great. I hate the friend zone.
I have a friend I like and we always spend a lot of time together. I just don’t get how she can spend 4 hours with me, we get on perfect and have the best chemistry then say c ya and go home. Back at home she must be like: “Will is so nice”, whereas I am like: “I want her so bad”. I dont spend so much time with people I dont like alot, and its werid cause she is just about the one I spend the most time with, of all my friends. I want out of being a really close friend. I have told her i think we should try to be more but she’s not sure. It is hard because I know we’d be so good together, i can’t get over her and it really annoys me now.
I think that a lot of these comments are spot on. A guy really has to just take control and tell it how it is. Don’t be reserved. If we are in the FZ we obviously have their respect, lets just go for it. Talking a girl into a relationship doesn’t seem to work. Thats why Im going back to the good old ‘ignore her” strategy. It usually works with girls. I have never tried it with a friend chick though. Im not going to be rude, i am just going to talk to other girls sometimes, not give her my full attention and remind her that she needs me. Let her know thata Im not going to be around forever. Im not an expert but when you stop giving somebody attention they really work hard to get it back.
Any help or comments are much appreciated.
September 19th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
here is my situation. im friends with this girl pretty good friends to i really like her, ive told her how of feel about her and she says she only wants to stay friends. for some reason i still get mixed feelings when im around her. what can i do in this situation. oh and she also still has feelings for her ex boyfriend